Comments on: Enjoying the Spirit

By: KT

KT — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 21:26:18 +0000

Hi Ron,

Thank you for your thoughtful post. This is a topic that I personally have been wrestling with and out of fear and confusion have found myself as a self-appointed “theological sheriff.” I am in an environment where there is a lot of theological diversity (calvinism, arminianism, etc.) but a growing and vocal group of folks who talk a lot about heaven, angels and signs and wonders. My question is what is the proper balance between the centrality of the gospel and the authority of scripture and being open and eager for an experience with the living God?

The language of heaven, angels and signs and wonders implies that the gospel is something that is very basic and understood almost as if, “hey, yeah we have the gospel, now let’s graduate to the miraculous.”

Here is an interesting link from John Piper from 1990 that shows how he has wrestled with the same things: http://desiringgod.org/resource-library/sermons/are-signs-and-wonders-for-today

So, should we pursue the miraculous and if so, what is the proper balance?

By: Jim

Jim — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 08:23:26 +0000

Thanks Ron,
Again that is very helpful. I would be in agreement that we must only speak as much on a quiet topic such as this within the barriers the Bible allows. I think a question for Heaven is a humble and reverent way of seeing this.
I suppose we could add that both the Father and Son send the Spirit, and he is the Presence of God on Earth. So he brings the presence of the Father and Son to earth and to his people etc. Augustine’s effort I think is as Biblical as one could achieve, and I might add does not reduce his role as a Person of the Trinity.
Our God is very great Ron, and his mystery of the Spirit is wonderful when we consider all the great gifts we receive from him.
Thanks again Ron for your really encouraging blog post.

By: Ron Frost

Ron Frost — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 05:59:05 +0000

Thanks, Jim, for asking the question in a gentle fashion!
The fact is that I had noticed the silence about the Spirit’s love in relation to the Father and the Son but it was only when I found that Jonathan Edwards raised the issue that I dared comment. It’s not something anyone can “explain”, needless to say, because it’s not really explained in the Scriptures. So what I wrote was an attempt, in very brief terms, to say as much as possible within the constraints of what the Bible says. I’ll certainly have more than a few questions to ask once I arrive in heaven and this will be one area to explore.
Augustine’s effort to address the matter seems present in his identification of the Spirit himself as the one who is the Love between the Father and the Son.

By: Jim

Jim — Sun, 24 Oct 2010 22:50:43 +0000

Hi Ron,
This was very helpful.
However I wonder if you could elaborate the point about The Holy Spirit not loving the Father or vice versa. Not mentioned in the Bible as you say. But again as you say, he does bring forth the Love of God. Also you say that he is God, and not a lesser person.

How can we grapple that neither the Son or Father mention their love for the Spirit. Or the Spirits love for the Father and Son?

I must admit I’ve never noticed that this love between them is not mentioned. Surely however, they must love each other?
Thanks Ron.

By: marenda

marenda — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 04:09:51 +0000

i don’t have much to say but i know God (the Holy Spirit) is healing me in my life as i obey God and drawing me closer to God and his will for my life and healing those around me. I am confident all the time that he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and i love that comfort and security.

By: DUANE WATTS

DUANE WATTS — Thu, 07 Oct 2010 06:30:39 +0000

I agree with you-all. The Spirit does not testify of Himself, so by and large, grandstanding is not of the Spirit. It’s interesting, I don’t know that it is right, but since beginning to enjoy this Trinitarianism, I seem to be more inclined to speak to the Lord, where before, I doctrinarily prayed to the Father in the name of Jesus, knowing that it was the Spirit that is [transmitting?] that message. I still understand the Spirit as the go between, between us and the Father and the Son. I think I alternate between addressing the Father directly, and Jesus. I desire to speak with Him, to be spoken to by Him. When I sense the Lord speaking to me, I think of it as the Lord, or alternately as the Father, but not usually the Spirit. When I go to bed and feel alone there (wife asleep for hours), I seek my Lord’s comfort and companionship, as I do in the morning darkness, getting ready for work. I’m aware that the Spirit is always there with me in the background. He often leads me to recall Scripture at the time needed. He is often near to remind me that I am but dust. Yes mine conscience. But He joins the Father and the Son in witnessing to me that I am loved by God, and for the first time, I can really believe it, because that is who God is!
Perhaps it is to His Glory that He is content to be invisible, almost undetectable. He does not desire “hosanna”s and “HalleluJah”s to go to Him, but to the Son and to the Father.
Thanks Ron!

By: Ron

Ron — Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:21:50 +0000

I hope some others will pitch in, too, Alan. Yet let me say that I’m with you on the importance of what Paul wrote about the Spirit in Romans 8, that you allude to in your comments. I link his call there to “set your mind on the Spirit rather than on the flesh” with the affirmation made earlier in Romans 5:5, that what we’ll hear from him is that we’re dearly loved by God!

By: Bobby Grow

Bobby Grow — Tue, 05 Oct 2010 06:08:50 +0000

My thoughts are simple: that this was very refreshing, thank you, Ron!

By: Tom Lyman:

Tom Lyman: — Tue, 05 Oct 2010 01:50:57 +0000

For me it all begins with relationship still. As the Holy Spirit works within the Trinity he also works within me. His role is to point me constantly to the Son and my relationship with him through the Cross. It is wonderful to sense his presence and work in my life. I have engaged in ministry and realized when it was complete that it was not just me, but the gracious work of the Holy Spirit to work through me. Like you, Ron, I have asked the questions and somehow in an off moment or first thing upon awakening have the answer and know with certainty that it was from the Lord. My problem is that I leak, so I have to constantly go before him asking for forgiveness and a fresh in filling. But the promise is in Luke 11 that the Lord gives the best gift there is “…how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him.”

By: Kathy

Kathy — Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:42:20 +0000

I also have experienced several areas of the working of the Spirit. Mostly it’s a calling – or a yearning to spend time in the Word, or to spend time in prayer. I attempt to always listen and obey that calling – as my biggest fear is that if I stop paying attention to that calling – that it will be easy to no longer pay attention – or not hear that calling anymore.

Additionally, I’ve sat in churches or Bible Studies where I’ve been taught I need to act a certain way – – To be more and more like Christ. To me, I’ve always failed gone down a hole of guilt and self deprecation. It’s taken a few times to go this route (so I’m a slow learner) to realize that this is something I cannot do on my own. I can only do it with the help of the Spirit- – which has led to freedom from that guilt.

And yes, the Spirit reminds me that I am loved. That I am valued by God. I know that as I walk into situations or different locations I He walks with me. Knowing that He’s walking with me causes me to look at people and situations differently. Rather than judging a drunk man who has thrown up all over the MAX train – I look at him (from a drier distance) and wonder how a person – made in the image of God wound up this way. Then I look at him with new eyes – and offer up a prayer for him.

As I have that awareness of His presence with me at all times – my life has changed.