<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Spirituality – Which Room?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/</link>
	<description>Biblical Training Programme</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 00:50:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: DUANE WATTS</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>DUANE WATTS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Beautiful word-picture Chris!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beautiful word-picture Chris!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Wisehart</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Wisehart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Great marksmanship requires holding a good sight picture which includes three elements, the front and rear sight blades and the target.  Many times I have couched shooters who fire just short of expert where all seems perfect except their rounds fall just in and out of the bull&#039;s-eye.  Expert marksmen recognize this problem with ease as what is called &quot;Chasing the Bull&quot; which is caused by a sight picture where the focus is on the target.  This is a poor sight picture because a good one is where one focuses on the front sight blade the rear and bull&#039;s-eye are fuzzy.  Fixing this small problem by focusing on the front sight blade moves the rounds for the edge of the bull’s-eye to the center making perfect marksmanship much easier.  This is similar to being in the right room.  Focus on our Lord and the goals though present may not be clear but we won’t miss them.  Though it is laudable to work to be like Him if we focus on what we wish to become we will miss the mark.  Our goals must be in the picture but to reach them they should not be our focus.  He must be our focus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great marksmanship requires holding a good sight picture which includes three elements, the front and rear sight blades and the target.  Many times I have couched shooters who fire just short of expert where all seems perfect except their rounds fall just in and out of the bull&#8217;s-eye.  Expert marksmen recognize this problem with ease as what is called &#8220;Chasing the Bull&#8221; which is caused by a sight picture where the focus is on the target.  This is a poor sight picture because a good one is where one focuses on the front sight blade the rear and bull&#8217;s-eye are fuzzy.  Fixing this small problem by focusing on the front sight blade moves the rounds for the edge of the bull’s-eye to the center making perfect marksmanship much easier.  This is similar to being in the right room.  Focus on our Lord and the goals though present may not be clear but we won’t miss them.  Though it is laudable to work to be like Him if we focus on what we wish to become we will miss the mark.  Our goals must be in the picture but to reach them they should not be our focus.  He must be our focus.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DUANE WATTS</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>DUANE WATTS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-32</guid>
		<description>I Love this question.  I rather intimated the bedroom in my blog some weeks ago:

&quot;Under normal circumstances as a Christian of 30 some years, when I pray, I address Father, who is over and above me, way up in Heaven. That is until recently.  

Now, I begin to know Him as the &#039;God who is in your face&#039;. By this I mean He is in my mind, Knowing everything that will occur to me to pray, before I pray it, and beyond that, He knows the motivation behind it, better than I do. He&#039;s in my eyes, seeing the covetousness within, as well as the beauty I see in a spring apple blossom. He&#039;s in my ears, hearing sacred music as I do.... He&#039;s in my nostrils smelling breakfast that hasn&#039;t even been prepared yet, only in my mind. He&#039;s in my breath, every molecule of oxygen in my vessels. He&#039;s in my fingertips, feeling the soft puppy&#039;s ears, and my lips, feeling my grandaughter&#039;s soft face.  He&#039;s in my heart, feeling my indignation over the injustice that is committed in the slaughter of the innocents, as well as the compassion I feel for my sick friend (who is getting better :)), and the poor little girl in Haiti, whom we sponsor and pray for.  
HE is in my face, He feels my breath, and I can almost feel His.

Now, when I pray, He is in Heavenly realms, as He has eternally been, but He is in my face, perfectly attentive to my every prayer. As I remember this, my prayer time [should be] an act of worship, not just telegraphing a bunch of requests to Heaven. The Eternal Maker of all that is, seen and unseen, and my redeemer, who bore the penalty for my sin, is in my face intimate, with every single sensation, thought and intent. Again, we just do not have a clue, the greatness, and now the closeness of our God. But we begin to get.... a clue.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Love this question.  I rather intimated the bedroom in my blog some weeks ago:</p>
<p>&#8220;Under normal circumstances as a Christian of 30 some years, when I pray, I address Father, who is over and above me, way up in Heaven. That is until recently.  </p>
<p>Now, I begin to know Him as the &#8216;God who is in your face&#8217;. By this I mean He is in my mind, Knowing everything that will occur to me to pray, before I pray it, and beyond that, He knows the motivation behind it, better than I do. He&#8217;s in my eyes, seeing the covetousness within, as well as the beauty I see in a spring apple blossom. He&#8217;s in my ears, hearing sacred music as I do&#8230;. He&#8217;s in my nostrils smelling breakfast that hasn&#8217;t even been prepared yet, only in my mind. He&#8217;s in my breath, every molecule of oxygen in my vessels. He&#8217;s in my fingertips, feeling the soft puppy&#8217;s ears, and my lips, feeling my grandaughter&#8217;s soft face.  He&#8217;s in my heart, feeling my indignation over the injustice that is committed in the slaughter of the innocents, as well as the compassion I feel for my sick friend (who is getting better :)), and the poor little girl in Haiti, whom we sponsor and pray for.<br />
HE is in my face, He feels my breath, and I can almost feel His.</p>
<p>Now, when I pray, He is in Heavenly realms, as He has eternally been, but He is in my face, perfectly attentive to my every prayer. As I remember this, my prayer time [should be] an act of worship, not just telegraphing a bunch of requests to Heaven. The Eternal Maker of all that is, seen and unseen, and my redeemer, who bore the penalty for my sin, is in my face intimate, with every single sensation, thought and intent. Again, we just do not have a clue, the greatness, and now the closeness of our God. But we begin to get&#8230;. a clue.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan Homersley</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Homersley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-29</guid>
		<description>All excellent comments and God has been speaking to me recently on this very matter (which again is amazing) :-). I would have classed myself as being a Gym orientated Christian until some months ago. &quot; A good Christian goes to church, A good Christian attends the prayer meeting, a good Christian has an hours quiet time every morning&quot;.........

I have been listening to some talks from Capenwray in the north of England by a Dutch chap called Eis Van Dijk on Galatians and how eveything is about Christ and our relationship with him (God). Getting to know God through Christ, being right with God through Christ, just walking with Christ and being in love with Christ in a deeper and deeper way each day becasue of how utterly amazing He is.

Eis tells a story (several actually) of a Girl who becomes a christian and is full of the life of Christ and can&#039;t help but tell of it. She starts to attend church and gets loaded with a list of Do&#039;s (and Dont&#039;s) and faithfully tries to live them out and some months later meets with Eis and tells of how the life has been sucked out of her trying to &#039;perform&#039;, to live out the set of rules and failing.

Rather, we should focus on Christ and give thanks that we have been forgiven for our inability to live out the rules (Law) and rest in him...(as Mary did) listening to His word and letting our lifes be full of the love that comes from Christ.

None of the things I listed at the start of this comment were wrong, but I was trying to live them out to be a &#039;Good Christian&#039; to some how fill the hole in my life and be &#039;better&#039; or &#039;more right&#039; with God..... I failed......I now focus on Christ, I talk with him I discuss with him, I cry with him I sometimes even shout at him, and yet &#039;his Love endures forever&quot; (psalm 136) he loves me always and shows me just how much when I talk to him about it... as I am reminded of the access I have into the Holy place through the sacrifice Christ has made my heart overflows with thanfulness and I talk to him all the more......

And slowly I realise that my need for the word is no longer based in a need to try and be &#039;better&#039; with Christ... but as a &#039;check&#039; to make sure I am walking with him, walking closely to him, and not being buredened again with a yoke of slavery, slavery to Sin, Not accepting the lies that satan (and my old self) perpetuate and which I  could (and do) get sucked back into and loosing the &#039;life&#039; of Christ in my life. I daily turn to the cross of christ and place my sins there and leave them there, to  maintain my walk with the greatest Love my life has ever known and the author and perfector of every thought my mind ever had (and has) and which produces the faith I have to turn to him ....

I praise God that Christ has torn the curtain in two and I have access back to the most Gracious king, my Lord and my God...... :-) and to quote the phrase at the bottom of the page. being gripped God and sharing His heart..... :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All excellent comments and God has been speaking to me recently on this very matter (which again is amazing) :-). I would have classed myself as being a Gym orientated Christian until some months ago. &#8221; A good Christian goes to church, A good Christian attends the prayer meeting, a good Christian has an hours quiet time every morning&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>I have been listening to some talks from Capenwray in the north of England by a Dutch chap called Eis Van Dijk on Galatians and how eveything is about Christ and our relationship with him (God). Getting to know God through Christ, being right with God through Christ, just walking with Christ and being in love with Christ in a deeper and deeper way each day becasue of how utterly amazing He is.</p>
<p>Eis tells a story (several actually) of a Girl who becomes a christian and is full of the life of Christ and can&#8217;t help but tell of it. She starts to attend church and gets loaded with a list of Do&#8217;s (and Dont&#8217;s) and faithfully tries to live them out and some months later meets with Eis and tells of how the life has been sucked out of her trying to &#8216;perform&#8217;, to live out the set of rules and failing.</p>
<p>Rather, we should focus on Christ and give thanks that we have been forgiven for our inability to live out the rules (Law) and rest in him&#8230;(as Mary did) listening to His word and letting our lifes be full of the love that comes from Christ.</p>
<p>None of the things I listed at the start of this comment were wrong, but I was trying to live them out to be a &#8216;Good Christian&#8217; to some how fill the hole in my life and be &#8216;better&#8217; or &#8216;more right&#8217; with God&#8230;.. I failed&#8230;&#8230;I now focus on Christ, I talk with him I discuss with him, I cry with him I sometimes even shout at him, and yet &#8216;his Love endures forever&#8221; (psalm 136) he loves me always and shows me just how much when I talk to him about it&#8230; as I am reminded of the access I have into the Holy place through the sacrifice Christ has made my heart overflows with thanfulness and I talk to him all the more&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>And slowly I realise that my need for the word is no longer based in a need to try and be &#8216;better&#8217; with Christ&#8230; but as a &#8216;check&#8217; to make sure I am walking with him, walking closely to him, and not being buredened again with a yoke of slavery, slavery to Sin, Not accepting the lies that satan (and my old self) perpetuate and which I  could (and do) get sucked back into and loosing the &#8216;life&#8217; of Christ in my life. I daily turn to the cross of christ and place my sins there and leave them there, to  maintain my walk with the greatest Love my life has ever known and the author and perfector of every thought my mind ever had (and has) and which produces the faith I have to turn to him &#8230;.</p>
<p>I praise God that Christ has torn the curtain in two and I have access back to the most Gracious king, my Lord and my God&#8230;&#8230; :-) and to quote the phrase at the bottom of the page. being gripped God and sharing His heart&#8230;.. :-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sylvester Odanga</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvester Odanga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 19:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Hi

I have really liked what goes on here. I came via Peter Mead&#039;s blog. 

Thanks
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>I have really liked what goes on here. I came via Peter Mead&#8217;s blog. </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bobby Grow</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby Grow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 02:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-26</guid>
		<description>I wanted to add that in contrast to &quot;framing&quot; the atonement forensically or legally; that the relational/Trintarian framing emphasizes &quot;union with Christ&quot; (cf.Eph 5, hi, Ron ;-) ) or Paul&#039;s &quot;in Christ&quot; theology. This emphasis does not negate the legal component of the atonement it just reframes it (i.e. thinking of marriage, in general, which is motivated and shaped by the love of the two spouses; but involves the step of &quot;making it legal&quot; by getting a license).

I think this framing or emphasis provides for the &quot;bedroom&quot; kind of spirituality that Peter is referencing. I was first put onto this kind of thinking by Ron Frost; I think it is a beautiful way of thinking about our relationship to Christ (or our bridegroom). He&#039;s not a cold &quot;law-giver,&quot; but a warm lover of our souls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to add that in contrast to &#8220;framing&#8221; the atonement forensically or legally; that the relational/Trintarian framing emphasizes &#8220;union with Christ&#8221; (cf.Eph 5, hi, Ron ;-) ) or Paul&#8217;s &#8220;in Christ&#8221; theology. This emphasis does not negate the legal component of the atonement it just reframes it (i.e. thinking of marriage, in general, which is motivated and shaped by the love of the two spouses; but involves the step of &#8220;making it legal&#8221; by getting a license).</p>
<p>I think this framing or emphasis provides for the &#8220;bedroom&#8221; kind of spirituality that Peter is referencing. I was first put onto this kind of thinking by Ron Frost; I think it is a beautiful way of thinking about our relationship to Christ (or our bridegroom). He&#8217;s not a cold &#8220;law-giver,&#8221; but a warm lover of our souls.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Dexter</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dexter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-25</guid>
		<description>What we have here is the Mary and Martha situation at the end of Luke 10.  Mary had got it right.  Martha was doing a good job until she lost the plot, and starting to look at others.  How like us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What we have here is the Mary and Martha situation at the end of Luke 10.  Mary had got it right.  Martha was doing a good job until she lost the plot, and starting to look at others.  How like us.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Huw</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Huw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Really helpful comments here! Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really helpful comments here! Thank you!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bobby Grow</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby Grow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 06:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Often, I think, the reason folks fall into a gym spirituality is because they have been taught to think of the atonement in certain terms --- i.e. in strictly forensic terms (or transactional). This leads to a &quot;relationship&quot; and spirituality with God that is indeed checklist and pharisaical --- i.e. because the whole &quot;relationship&quot; has been framed by a legal relationship and not an intimate/Trinitarian one.

I think Hugh Binning (a Scottish theologian from years past) hits on how a Trinitarian and relational understanding of salvation looks like:

&lt;blockquote&gt;. . . our salvation is not the business of Christ alone but the whole Godhead is interested in it deeply, so deeply, that you cannot say, who loves it most, or likes it most. The Father is the very fountain of it, his love is the spring of all — “God so loved the world that he hath sent his Son”. Christ hath not purchased that eternal love to us, but it is rather the gift of eternal love . . . Whoever thou be that wouldst flee to God for mercy, do it in confidence. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, are ready to welcome thee, all of one mind to shut out none, to cast out none. But to speak properly, it is but one love, one will, one council, and purpose in the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, for these Three are One, and not only agree in One, they are One, and what one loves and purposes, all love and purpose. (Thomas F. Torrance, quoting Hugh Binning, “Scottish Theology,” 79)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If salvation is thought of in terms like this --- that God is love and is seeking a relationship with His creation --- then a gymnasium spirituality melts away into the &quot;bedroom&quot; of God&#039;s holy and loving life (the checklist is thrown out).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Often, I think, the reason folks fall into a gym spirituality is because they have been taught to think of the atonement in certain terms &#8212; i.e. in strictly forensic terms (or transactional). This leads to a &#8220;relationship&#8221; and spirituality with God that is indeed checklist and pharisaical &#8212; i.e. because the whole &#8220;relationship&#8221; has been framed by a legal relationship and not an intimate/Trinitarian one.</p>
<p>I think Hugh Binning (a Scottish theologian from years past) hits on how a Trinitarian and relational understanding of salvation looks like:</p>
<blockquote><p>. . . our salvation is not the business of Christ alone but the whole Godhead is interested in it deeply, so deeply, that you cannot say, who loves it most, or likes it most. The Father is the very fountain of it, his love is the spring of all — “God so loved the world that he hath sent his Son”. Christ hath not purchased that eternal love to us, but it is rather the gift of eternal love . . . Whoever thou be that wouldst flee to God for mercy, do it in confidence. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, are ready to welcome thee, all of one mind to shut out none, to cast out none. But to speak properly, it is but one love, one will, one council, and purpose in the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, for these Three are One, and not only agree in One, they are One, and what one loves and purposes, all love and purpose. (Thomas F. Torrance, quoting Hugh Binning, “Scottish Theology,” 79)</p></blockquote>
<p>If salvation is thought of in terms like this &#8212; that God is love and is seeking a relationship with His creation &#8212; then a gymnasium spirituality melts away into the &#8220;bedroom&#8221; of God&#8217;s holy and loving life (the checklist is thrown out).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Mead</title>
		<link>http://www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Mead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 05:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cordeo.org.uk/?p=111#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Duncan, thanks for throwing Luke 18:9-14 into the mix, what a great passage!  The Pharisee is really praying about himself for others to hear, the exact opposite of what spiritual growth in community should be like.  This is a great example of the &quot;verbal email&quot; Brian described in his comment.  The Pharisee&#039;s self-description, and his CV of gymnasium achievements (including the twice weekly fast when God asked them for one day per year, as well as his over and above approach to tithing), demonstrate a completely self-focused &quot;spirituality.&quot;  Not that I am against gyms, but they typically have big mirrors in them!  On the other hand the tax collector views himself as &quot;the&quot; sinner and pleads for propitiation (i.e. make atonement for me because I am hopeless without your help Lord.) It is about a person and not a personal programme!

Incidentally, have you noticed how this parable introduces the sequence of stories that flow out of it . . . I&#039;m thinking of the next five units?  Be worth reading through Luke 18 and into 19 to see how he combined these narratives so powerfully, pointing ultimately to the atoning work of the Person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan, thanks for throwing Luke 18:9-14 into the mix, what a great passage!  The Pharisee is really praying about himself for others to hear, the exact opposite of what spiritual growth in community should be like.  This is a great example of the &#8220;verbal email&#8221; Brian described in his comment.  The Pharisee&#8217;s self-description, and his CV of gymnasium achievements (including the twice weekly fast when God asked them for one day per year, as well as his over and above approach to tithing), demonstrate a completely self-focused &#8220;spirituality.&#8221;  Not that I am against gyms, but they typically have big mirrors in them!  On the other hand the tax collector views himself as &#8220;the&#8221; sinner and pleads for propitiation (i.e. make atonement for me because I am hopeless without your help Lord.) It is about a person and not a personal programme!</p>
<p>Incidentally, have you noticed how this parable introduces the sequence of stories that flow out of it . . . I&#8217;m thinking of the next five units?  Be worth reading through Luke 18 and into 19 to see how he combined these narratives so powerfully, pointing ultimately to the atoning work of the Person.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- This Quick Cache file was built for (  www.cordeo.org.uk/spirituality-%e2%80%93-which-room/feed/ ) in 0.58789 seconds, on Feb 4th, 2012 at 1:55 pm UTC. -->
<!-- This Quick Cache file will automatically expire ( and be re-built automatically ) on Feb 4th, 2012 at 2:55 pm UTC -->
